Election latest: Farage challenged over spending plans in Reform's 'contract' (2024)

Heading off concerns Reform UK could target Labour heartlands in Wales (where Nigel Farage launched his party's sort-of manifesto today), Sir Keir Starmer has said the general election is "a straight choice between Conservatives and Labour".

Asked what his message to voters in Wales who are thinking of voting for Reform would be, the Labour leader told Sky News: "The election on 4 July is a straight choice between Conservatives and Labour, and a straight choice between carrying on with the chaos, the division, and the failure of the last 14 years, or turning a page and rebuilding the country with a Labour government."

Asked if he agreed with Foreign Secretary David Cameron's criticism of Mr Farage's use of inflammatory language, Sir Keir said: "You certainly get a lot of noise from Nigel Farage."

But he went on to reiterate his point about the choice being between the Tories and Labour.

Rishi Sunak has insisted the Conservatives are "on the right track", despite Defence Secretary Grant Shapps admitting earlier today a Tory victory at the general election is unlikely.

Speaking from Centrica's Rough 47-3B gas rig in the North Sea, the prime minister said: "There's still two-and-a-half weeks to go in this election, I'm fighting hard for every vote because I believe we can win.

"And there's a very clear choice at this election: it's having your taxes cut by the Conservatives or facing significant tax rises with the Labour Party."

He said he understands people's "frustrations" with his party and said while he has "made progress [...] there is more to go".

"But the point now is we are on the right track and this election is about the future.

"The choice is clear: if you want your border secure and migration down, if you want your taxes cut, your pension protected, it's only the Conservatives that are going to deliver that for you."

Nigel Farage is "very clear this is about a five-year programme to challenge both the Labour Party and the Conservatives", our deputy political editorSam Coatessays.

He says there are a couple of unusual features from this event - the first and probably the most important is we have a party leader telling his party they will not win this election.

"He is quite candid about it," he says.

"They might pick up a handful of seats, but this is not a manifesto-like document that is going to deliver anything like heading to power.

"He is very clear, this is about a five-year programme to challenge both the Labour Party and the Conservatives."

Sam notes "this is not a blueprint for government".

"It is a campaigning document designed to show a direction of travel from a party that wants to shake up the other two big parties in this election," he adds.

Our political correspondent Gurpreet Narwan is next up, and she asks where £50bn of public sector wasted spending would come from.

Nigel Farage says this would be simple as civil servants mostly work from home.

"If you're running a company and things are tight, you say to your managers and middle managers - right, I'm sorry, this is the way it is, you've got to cut £5 in £100," he adds.

Mr Farage says this is "not unrealistic in any way at all".

"The sheer bloating of the civil service that has taken place... since 2019 is just astonishing."

The Reform UK leader goes on to say of the UK: "We're skint.

"Who else would say that in this campaign?

"We're skint, we're in real trouble."

The next question asks Nigel Farage what he would say to those who might like him but don't believe he has the skill to be an actual opposition leader.

"We all have our personalities and yes, of course, I'm fairly decisive," he responds.

"I have an opinion, but it doesn't mean I don't listen and doesn't mean I don't change my mind.

"It doesn't mean I don't respect others and I can't work as part of a team."

He says he "understands the point about compromise" but "equally you have to have a goal".

"I am very confident in what I say and what I believe in," he adds.

"But I think to give leadership you need to have that."

Next up is a question from our deputy political editor Sam Coates, who asks about a proposed additional £141bn of spending every year.

This is far higher than even promised by Liz Truss.

"The scale of this is deeply unserious, isn't it?"

Nigel Farage agrees, saying the Reform UK plan is "radical, it's fresh thinking - it's outside the box".

He goes on to claim that the Tories and Labour Party are "indistinguishable from each other".

Mr Farage stresses again that his fight is about "who the opposition is going to be", as he believes Labour will be in Number 10 in July.

Asked by the BBCif the 24-page contract set out by Reform UK is a wish list rather than a serious plan, Nigel Farage says "it is a promise that this is what we will campaign for over the next five years".

"Labour doesn't want to talk about these issues," he says.

"We've laid out very clearly where we stand philosophically and ideologically on a number of things and this is what we're going to fight for.

"I see no inconsistency whatsoever."

Mr Farage also says "this is what we are going to campaign for".

Over to Richard Tice, who is explaining how Reform UK would pay for the policies outlined in his party's 25-page "contract" with the British people.

He says the costs are set out in their manifesto, with plans to abandon plans for net zero saving billions of pounds.

Here's a brief breakdown of how Reform UK claim they would save around £150bn annually to pay for its policies:

• An immigration tax could raise £4bn;
• Savings in immigration costs could total £5bn;
• A crackdown on benefits could save £15bn;
• A 50% cut in foreign aid could total £6bn;
• By scrapping net zero, the UK could save £30bn;
• On transport, £5bn could be raised;
• Another £50bn could be raised by avoiding "wasteful government spending";
• Halting bank interest on QE reserves could equal £35bn.

Nigel Farage goes on to say that Reform UK will not form the government after the 4 July general election but that it would be the first step on the road to the next contest which could be in 2029.

Mr Farage says his aim is to turn this into a "mass movement" and that there is a "breakdown of trust" in politics.

"We are not pretending that we are going to win this general election, we are a very, very new political party," he says.

He adds though that"this election is for our party" and "the first important step on the road to 2029".

He earlier admitted his ambition was to become PM that year.

"Our ambition is to establish a bridgehead in parliament, and to become a real opposition to a Labour government," he adds.

He saysthe Tories will not be able to provide opposition because "they spend most of their days arguing among themselves, and they're split down the middle when it comes to policy".

Speaking on why he has chosen to launch the party's contract in Wales, the Reform UK leader says "Labour have been in power here since 1997".

"Perhaps there are some lessons we can learn from 25 years of a Labour government in Wales," he says.

He suggests it could be a sign of "what we might be looking forward to in a few weeks time when Sir Keir Starmer becomes PM".

Mr Farage says that in Wales, "taxes are higher" than in England.

He says the "figures in Wales are truly astonishing".

"Waiting times in Wales on the NHS are exactly 50% longer than they are on the other side of the bridge," he adds.

"Education, which has drifted in Wales rapidly in a leftward PC-woke direction, has fallen further behind England."

Mr Farage also claims a Labour government in Wales "reduces your freedoms" and "reduces your choices".

"And of course, the crowning glory of 25 years of Labour government in Wales is the imposition of 20mph speed limits," he adds.

This last comment is met by boos in the crowds.

"In terms of policy, Labour's not very different to the Conservatives -it's just more incompetent," he says.

"It just wastes even more money than Conservative governments do. But here's the point about things going so badly wrong in Wales over 25 years.

"There's been no proper, clear, consistent opposition voice."